The Great Awakenings in early America (that evangelicals love to romantically look back upon) were scandulous and freaky to the mainstream church of that day. The revival leaders were heralded as “false-everything,” the manifestations made the news. Yet today we look back quite fondly on those “special times” God visited our nation. Today, May 1, is the National Day of Prayer. People are gathering all over America asking God to visit us again.
Let’s be honest… if God were to “visit” our churches today in similar fashion, half of yous would walk out and spread a bad report. Am I wrong? Before you judge what is unfolding in Florida, ask yourself this question… what will it look like when God shows up? The self-appointed, unaccountable, anonymous, bitter and fruitless doctrine police on the Internet are already having a heyday with Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Florida outpouring. They shoot their arrows from places of concealment. They sit in the seat of scoffers. They bother me because their methods and message are far more unBiblical than anything unfolding in Florida. The Bible cautions against those with forms of religion but who deny the power. Anyone else want the power? I do.
Come out of your cave and stand there and wait for God to pass by. You thought he’d come in a storm or a whirlwind didn’t you? Nope. He came in a still small voice. To all of you now standing outside your cave waiting for a still small voice, I’m guessing he’ll come now in the storm and many will miss his coming. Do you think he’s forever locked into passing by in only one fashion?
Some of us have been praying and fasting for years for God to come in power. Personally, I’ve been fortunate to have been in some recent outpourings – Kansas City being our hometown, Kristen and I experienced the early years of the Kansas City Prophets and saw God move mightily in those gatherings. We were dating at the time and that’s what we did for dates – go hear Bob Jones! There was good and not so good and, long story short, we bolted to Chicago for a few years to settle into safer ministries. But I love the Narnia line about Aslan the lion/Jesus… “Is He safe? No. But he’s good.” In 1996, the Spirit rocked us again. Since then I’ve been to Pensacola/Brownsville, Toronto, Nigeria and Kiev. Last summer my son Caleb and I, and friend Andy, went on a prayer journey to Herrnhut, Germany to tap into an ancient awakening there.
I believe in cross-pollination, transferable anointing and impartation. Historical revivals spread up and down the east coast of our nation because people traveled. I’m bummed some of the aforementioned outpourings didn’t last or, in any tangible way, transform the city in which they occurred. I believe we are learning more each time about how to steward a move of God. There are God visitations spoken of in the Bible that were soon quenched by carnality, pride and the like. I know we are to inspect fruit, but the Bible doesn’t discount the authenticity of a visitation just because the people afterwards veered off course.
And now something has broken out in Lakeland, Florida. With many others who also have their ear-to-the-track regarding the End Times, I’ve been waiting for something to pop somewhere and for it to go national, indeed global, in just a few weeks through the wonders of technology and transportation. In the 80′s back in KC we held on to prophecies that God would one day fill stadiums with prophetic healing meetings. This is happening tonight in Florida. Meetings that were only intended to go for a couple days have now been ongoing daily for weeks – they are outgrowing every venue they’ve moved into and tonight they will be in Tiger Stadium.
For these reasons I’m watching Florida really close and watching my tongue lest I speak against something God is doing. Friends who have gone have come back powerfully healed. Others report some misgivings. I certainly have some misgivings of my own but they are easily overcomeable. Each night our family has been watching via GODTV. A few guys in the church have talked with me about going. I probably will. I think you should do what Zack Hensley is thinking of doing – driving down with a buddy just to kick your skepticism in the face. Let’s be people who bless not curse. Thanks Zack for this blessing prayer:
Bless Todd Bentley, Bless those in Lakeland Florida. I pray that the Lord continues to give him a spirit of wisdom and revelation, that they would know the hope of which Christ was called. I pray for all those touched by the Lord in healing and salvation that He would complete the work he has started in them. That they would be counted worthy of His calling and that the grace and peace of Christ would sustain them until the end. amen
I’m not worried about being deceived. I trust God’s ability to keep me more than the devil’s ability to deceive me. Here’s what I fear more… missing a move of God because it came in a way that made me uncomfortable.
I share Randy Bohlender’s sentiments…
Revival is always a polarizing event and this one is no exception. I don’t feel compelled to answer for ministry styles or personalities any more. I do know this – our friend, Kelsey Hayes, was dramatically healed (is there an undramatic healing?) last week. My guess is her parents didn’t worry too much about the ministry style. Do I wish people did things a different way? Of course…but not enough to reject something if God is in it.[SH: Read a news report of Kelsey's healing here. I highly, highly recommend you read this testimony/news report.]
Do desperately hungry people get real picky about how and who hands food to them? No.
Numerous CATGr’s are quite familiar with the main personality in the Florida outpouring – Todd Bentley. A year ago I led a group of 30+ people through a study of his book on the Supernatural World. It was a great upgrade for those of us ready to “set our minds on things in heaven, not on earthly things.” Others have been to conferences where Todd has ministered. Same story… some powerfully touched, others report misgivings.
Personally, a few of his antics and of course, the observables (tattoos and piercings) don’t make much sense to me. But here’s how I’ve overcome that… I asked myself what the 21st century equivalent to eating locusts/wild honey and wearing wild camels hair and a belt might be. What do you think it is? Wearing wild camels fur put John the Baptist in league with the outcasts and unclean. I’m thinking today’s equivalent might be tattoo’s, t-shirts and piercings. Lou Engle once commented about the young generation that God is raising up today that is so full of piercings. Frustrated, he told God… they “look like fishing lures.” God responded something to the effect, “Precisely, and I’m going to use them to reel in the nations.”
What should a “man of God” look like? Do I fit the bill? In other nations, cultures and camps probably not. Twenty two years ago when I entered ministry the “man of God” wore a blue suit and a red tie (that is if you had any holy role on the platform). But I started to move in other circles and discovered a camp where the “man of God” had to have a $3000 suit to show off his anointing. If I’d have shown up with my $100 blue suit/tie they’d have kept me off the stage and cast the spirit of religion off me and tried to introduce me to the new wineskin.
Today we are active in the ARC and in the prayer movement. Last week we were in Birmingham for the ARC conference and repeatedly saw how the “man of God” wears an embroidered untucked shirt with the sleeves barely rolled up, jeans and dress shoes. At IHOP, frankly, anything from Goodwill will work. They don’t care down there because the knees will wear out soon anyway from hours in the prayer room. Dressing like that in the house of God is “offensive” to some – where’s the reverence and respect?! I say, lighten up. In the case of female attire, at least they exude a modesty I’m not seeing in suburban evangelical youth/college ministries. My son Caleb graduates high school in a couple weeks and is heading to IHOP’s Forerunner School of Ministry in the fall. After four years of buzz haircuts for Marine Corp JR ROTC, he told us this AM his hair is going to get longer and that he is thinking about a tattoo on his arm of the Hebrew letters for the word “Nazirite.” I told him to hold off on the tattoo but I was delighted that he has the heart of a Nazirite. Maybe I need a tattoo. When I cut my long hair a few years ago many CATGr’s were relieved. One of our worship team peeps commented to me the day I cut my ponytail off… “good, now I can invite friends again to church!” Maybe I’ll put my earring in again.
One of our praying people at CATG once told me regarding Heidi Baker that “she offends the natural mind before she even opens her mouth.” If you’ve seen her you know about the twitching and jerking. It does… it offends the natural mind – many probably think “this lady is a certified nut.” But, no. No, no she isn’t. God is using her to minister to the discarded children of the world – to start thousands of orphanages and churches. She is going to the hopeless places in the world the scoffer has yet to go and, unlike the scoffer, she is bearing eternal fruit. And, buckle up for this… she is literally seeing things in her ministry like the feeding of five thousand with a single bowl of soup.
One things I know about a genuine move of God, it will offend the natural mind. If you can get past that you can get into the supernatural.
I hope you’ll also read my other posts on Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring.
Florida Healing Outpouring – Todd Bentley and the Seat of Scoffers part two
Florida Healing Outpouring – Todd Bentley and the Seat of Scoffers part three
Florida Healing Outpouring – Todd Bentley and the Angel Emma
Florida Healing Outpouring – Todd Bentley, Violence and the Kingdom of God
Florida Healing Outpouring – Todd Bentley, the manifestations of the Spirit or Kundalini?
119 comments
May 1, 2008 at 9:51 am
David Kovaleski
Pastor Steve,
Great post. After accepting Christ as my Saviour, I grew up in the Pentacostal movement. At Christ for the Nations, I took had a class on the Book of Acts taught by Mrs. Parham, the daughter of Charles Parham of the Azusa Street Revivals. It was a fascinating to hear about the Azusa Street revivals and to hear how the “church” people found them to be of the lunatic variety. Few things christians, usually well intentioned, tend to do better than anything else is to put God in a box and expect Him to show up in a certain way and perform in a certain way, much like a trained monkey in a circus. God is amazing, and usually sends a movement in such a way that the typical Sunday Christian gets completly bypassed. And, as is the case with most things in life, the typical christian of today will scoff as the Holy Spirit literally blows right by them as they pray for revival. I am excited for what is going on in Florida and pray that it finds South Dakota. Or, maybe it has and we are to blind to see what is right in front of us?
May 1, 2008 at 12:49 pm
completefaith
They “look like fishing lures.” God responded something to the effect, “Precisely, and I’m going to use them to reel in the nations.”
I have heard this statement before, and every time I do it literally brings tears to my eyes and puts a catch in my throat. There is something about these words that we will see ring true for years to come. I just heard about this Florida thing yesterday, so it’s new to me, but I already think it might be time for a trip.
May 1, 2008 at 1:08 pm
patrickrobert
Hello Pastor Steve, my name is Patrick. I have never read your blog before but enjoy reading Pastor Randy’s from IHOP. I was moved to tears as I am reading your blog, and listening to last nights service from Florida. Its awesome to see that you are working through so many things and processing things internally to grow in love with God and man. I just wanted to let you know that I was blessed by your open conversation. Thanks for being genuine. And what a great story from your son. Thanks again and God Bless
May 1, 2008 at 2:41 pm
carl
What a great word. I have been twice to Lakeland. I was touched both times. Some of my people have been to more than 2 dozen meetings. My people are almost salivating for the anointing and Todd has it. And more than that, he isn’t trying to make a fortune off of it. He is trying to give it away.
I have been more than a little frustrated by some of the reactions I have read about this move. Your words are a salve.
May 1, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Words of Wisdom from Steve Hickey at Revival Blog
[...] read the whole article here [...]
May 1, 2008 at 3:20 pm
PC
Steve, I was in reading Acts 13 today, where Paul had preached in the synagogue in Antioch. Vs. 42 struck me “…..the Gentiles BEGGED that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.” The next week the whole city showed up. However, the religious leaders were envious and opposed Paul.
In studying revival, not much has changed in 2000 yrs. The (fleshly) spirit of religion has always opposed the Holy Spirit of God. I pray we would all be more like the Gentiles and have a “Holy hunger” for the things of God.
May 1, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Pat
Pastor Steve,
I can hardly wait to meet you. I read your blog concerning the outpouring in Lakeland. Todd’s been to our church and I was powerfully touched. He’s not a conventional package. I too view him as a John the Baptist. We’ve also been watching every evening on GodTV. I’d be going to Florida if I wasn’t coming to South Dakota from Pennsylvania in a few weeks. We are so blessed to know our son, Jared, and his family will be serving the Lord under you. We believe that under your wing, he will not only obtain his own destiny but be used by God to bring others into destiny purpose. We love your “out of the box” heart!
May 1, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Lakeland Outpouring With Todd Bentley « Pressing In And Moving On
[...] 2) Steve Hickey-Blog [...]
May 1, 2008 at 8:30 pm
jthelmsdeep
Steven, this might be the longest blog post I’ve ever read but it was definetely worth the time. Your arguments are brilliant, well reasoned and sensible. I agree with you whole heartedly. Let me know when you are coming and we’ll make the trip to Lakeland together.
May 1, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Steve Hickey
Glad everyone so far liked the post. Sorry its so stinkin long. I type as fast as I think so it just ended up as it is.
Joseph – if I’m going I’ll be sure to call.
Pat – I look forward to meeting you and we are very excited about Jared coming to CATG!
PC – let’s go to Lakeland!
Carl – thanks for commenting with a few words from the epicenter – I’m glad my words were salve.
Patrickrobert – thanks for checking out my blog and for the encouraging words.
Completefaith – let’s head to Lakeland!
David – I’m joining you in praying this spreads to SD!!
May 1, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Bret
Well said.
May 1, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Jared
This stuff gets me fired up! I love seeing God move outside of our boxes (most of the time), I have to admit there are times I turn my head too wondering if that is really him or not. I do have the tattoo and earing though… and hope to expand on the tattoo! I have grown up in the pentecostal/charasmatic movement and seen things abused but I have seasoned people around me to help me sift that which is of God and that which is not. Lets go after it! South Dakota here we come!
May 2, 2008 at 9:28 am
B A Berean
“Twenty two years ago when I entered ministry the “man of God” wore a blue suit and a red tie…But I started to move in other circles and discovered a camp where the “man of God” had to have a $3000 suit to show off his anointing.”
If the average tattoo artist charges $150/hour, Todd Bentley’s colorful body suit had to cost more than $3000…only difference is, at the end of the day, he can’t take his off.
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:28
Regarding Heidi Baker’s twitching, Todd Bentley’s shaking, etc…these are only a few of the manifestations mentioned here:
http://users.aol.com/ckress/symptoms.html
This is not something to be taken lightly. Ask God for wisdom, and He will show you the truth.
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons
1 Timothy 4:1
May 2, 2008 at 11:03 am
Jimmy Maddox
Honesty, I have not heard much criticism yet regarding the outpouring. Mainly because I haven’t looked! I’m sure it is there and I am sure I will start to hear about it as I start to share the things that God did to me during my trip. I just got back from the revival and God imparted a lot of things in me while I was there. Most of all….a deeper love for the body. I am destroyed for God. I’m sitting here at work trying to concentrate and have fought back tears all day. Our lives are about to change drastically and it scares me! But God will lead us. Blessings to you and thanks for the wisdom in this article
May 2, 2008 at 11:04 am
Steve Hickey
B A Berean – I get it… be a Berean. I’m sorry my friend, but why the anonymity?? Anonymity to me is a form of darkness, staying in the shadows – Psalm 64 speaks of arrows coming from these places of concealment.
Anyhoo – really, thanks for your comment. Be assured I take none of this lightly – hundreds of people look to me on these sorts of matters. I’ve conferred with numerous known and respected Christian leaders on this prior to my post. And be assured we ask God for wisdom and that he does reveal what is the truth. Sorry but your phrase “he will show you the truth” reeks of arrogance and self-righteousness. Ugh.
I have more to say about scoffers – this really isn’t directly to you, just more of my ruminations on scoffers in general. 2 Peter 3:3 says that “in the last days, many scoffers will come….” It goes on to say these are people in the church who have no understanding for how Jesus will come at the end of the age. These are the people Paul is refering to in the passage you mention on people falling away.
A few other thoughts on scoffers… Ever notice they never wear the knees of their pants out in the prayer room – the people who scoff aren’t people of prayer – they “diligently study the Scriptures thinking that by them they have life” but “they refuse to come to [Him] to have life.” (John 5:39-40) I came from this crowd, so I was one and knew many others… and I have come out from among them. Their prayers are token and frankly, they love a good fight about Jesus far more than they love Jesus. They have no fruit (Gal. 5). I reject the demonic spirit operating in them. It is not of God. Brother Zack Hensley had a good post recently on what Bereans are not.
http://zackhensley.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/what-bereans-are-not/
I have a message series called the Fall Away Factor that is based on the 1 Timothy 4:1 verse you mention. And, I wrote a 342 page commentary published in 2004 by Creation House Press on 1, 2 Timothy and Titus – so I’m pretty familiar with the Apostle Paul’s words here to Timothy. In the Fall Away series I directly address the issue of people who presently stand with Christ, who in the End Times, will decidedly reject Him and why many in the evangelical church today are indanger of falling away. There are many who aren’t “keeping in step with the Spirit” (Gal 5). They are the ones in danger of falling behind. Blessing to you my Berean brother!
May 2, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Beth
Nothing would please me more than to have the Lord heal my friend A. from the cancer that has riddled every part of her body! The problem is, though, that if He does, her husband will become a follower of Magic Jesus. They come from another culture that is heavy into “bargaining” with God, rather than receiving from Him. The husband wants a god that he can manipulate; a faith that he can wear as an amulet. His hope is centered on this life, this world, on material things. There is nothing–not even Jesus–that is more important to him than his wife.
Does this make a difference?
May 2, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Steve Hickey
Jimmy – thanks for commenting – sounds like God touched you deeply! Ooo
RE: BETH
Heavenly Father I pray for A. and ask that you would heal her body of cancer, completely, in Jesus’ name. And Jesus I pray that her husband would have a life-changing revelation of you and that all within the sphere of the influence of this Great Mercy (this miracle) would give you glory. I pray for Beth that her questions would be answered. I thank you that the Kingdom of God is coming to this earth, even now. I thank you that the Kingdom is coming on earth as it is in heaven and that we don’t just have to just cope and hang on until we get to heaven. We look forward to the day when you return to this material-world-made-new to forever rule and reign with us. In the interim, thank you for sending your Spirit to reside powerfully in us even now. Amen.
May 2, 2008 at 3:53 pm
jthelmsdeep
Steven, here’s another thought on this matter. Initially I was going to hold back on sharing this since I intended to blog about it. Now that you’ve done such a masterful job of addressing the issues, I’m not certain another blog about this won’t be redundant. So, since I’m not certain whether or not I will be blogging about it… here goes.
In Acts 2 when the day of Pentecost came and tongues of fire came down upon the disciples and they began to speak with other tongues, people who heard their languages spoken as well as observed the tongues of fire upon the heads of these men supposed they were intoxicated. Today with the hindsight of the Scriptures, we don’t even debate the veracity of the claim that those men had an encounter with God. The question you posed at the beginning of your writeup is the pertinent one to ask, “What would it look like if God actually visited the earth today?” The problem with too many of us is that we have an anaesthetized view of who God is and how He operates. Sadly, those men in Acts were witnessing an amazing outpouring of the H.S. that was promised by Jesus in Acts 1:8, but because of their arrogance and unwillingness to allow that they might be wrong, they saw God and called Him Satan (in essence that’s what they did when they accused the men of being inebriated).
Like you, whatever my hangups about personal style may be, they are easily eradicated by the knowledge that God is sovereign all by Himself and can choose to speak through whomever and however He decides. If you don’t believe me, ask Balaam’s donkey!
May 2, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Beth
Thank you!
May 2, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Teresa
Pastor Steve, I’ve been following the discussion on your latest blog with great interest. I’m kind of wondering what gave B A Berean the idea you were taking what’s going on in Lakeland lightly. As you know, before we joined CATG , our family came out of a mainstream evangelical church. A place where the congregation was rarely encouraged to even open the Bible-a place where the scripture was barely even read out loud on Sundays! We were totally dependent upon the Pastors to tell us about God and we were very comfortable there, but it wasn’t enough. We have learned a great deal from you at CATG and YOU have ALWAYS challenged us to look in the scriptures ourselves on what you are teaching, find the truth ourselves by actually studying the scriptures. For me, it all boils down to this-do I want to be comfortable or do I want to know Jesus. We’ve made our choice-you’ve never once mislead us. Thank you for always pushing us out of our comfort zone and seeking God’s truth! I can assure B A Berean, he doesn’t take it lightly! Blessings-TK
May 2, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Megan J
This is all so good! Wow! I’m so convicted in my heart. I’ve run from that which makes me uncomfortable before, even though in the depths of my heart, I long to embrace everything that is of the Lord. Spirit, grace me with wisdom and understanding to know YOU, no matter what I think that should look like! Let revival come first to my heart. Revelation come!
May 2, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Johan
Steve,
Thank you for a fresh perspective! I’m a Methodist (ten years) after being in a very Calvinistic strict church in South Africa, so you can imagine that Todd B comes to my system as a bit of a shock!
Your words show love, rather than critisism, yeeaaaau!!!
Johan
May 3, 2008 at 5:44 am
Pat
Another thought I had the other day, the only ones who attributed Jesus’ miracles to Satan where the Pharisees. They had a form of godliness but denied the power thereof. Father, we ask for your Spirit of wisdom & revealation to know you better! (Eph1:17)
May 3, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Steve Hickey
Bret, Johan – thanks for commenting!! I’m glad you liked the post
Jared, Megan – may the fire fall on you next!
Joseph, Pat – good insights!
Teresa – those are high compliments to me! Thanks
May 3, 2008 at 6:16 pm
lynn
I was so encouraged by your post Steve. I hope you don’t mind that I have linked to you.
I read an anonymous blog on the Florida Outpouring that broke my heart.
thank you for saying so much, so well, with grace, honesty and candour.
Lynn (Scotland, UK)
May 3, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Talin
Your post is such a breath of fresh air.
I have read such awful things about Todd and the outpouring. It grieves my heart. The thing I would love to ask the scoffers is how many people have been healed in their meetings? Anyone blind see lately? Anyone deaf hear? Anyone get out of a wheelchair? Anyone raised from the dead? etc., etc. I could go on and on with the remarkable healing miracles happening. And those are just on the physical healing side, this revival is having a profound effect on the spirits of many. Anyone get saved, radically delivered and set on fire for God all in the same night by the ministry of the scoffers? Nah, they are too busy blogging about Todd being the antichrist.
Oh, I have read that Todd is greedy, money-hungry, etc. Oh, is that why he was so caught up in the anointing that 9 out of 10 nights, he forgot to take an offering. Other times he has asked people to send money to GodTV to support them. He has asked people to sow into revival on his site, but stressed that the anointing cannot be bought, and the giving is unto God.
I want to go there in the worst way. I had a trip booked, and then came down with a sudden physical ailment that did not allow me to fly. I had to cancel my trip
I am still hoping God will work it out that I can still go before it’s over.
I was with Todd at a meeting in NYC, and that was right before he went to Lakeland. Not surprisingly, despite being in Manhattan, which can be some of the hardest, most skeptical ground, after the service, our prayer line took over an entire city block. Many fell out under the power of the Spirit, and were lying on the sidewalk, including me! People walking by were so attracted to the Spirit that they got in line, and got saved, healed and delivered. It was amazing. I just know that what started here got stronger by a thousand times, and I wish I could go get some to bring back here.
However, I keep consoling myself by reminding myself that this Sovereign outpouring of God is on the move, and with enough hunger, and prayer by the people here, it could come right to our door.
Talin
Long Island, NY
http://www.myspace.com/burnlongisland
May 4, 2008 at 7:26 am
Vicki
Steve,
Thank you for this detailed & considered post. Especially this:
“I’m not worried about being deceived. I trust God’s ability to keep me more than the devil’s ability to deceive me. Here’s what I fear more… missing a move of God because it came in a way that made me uncomfortable.”
I read something similar in a Bill Johnson book recently & it really hit home to me. We should fear mediocrity & scepticism a whole lot more than fearing what it looks like to those around us when we go off at the deep end for God!
Thanks too to Zack for that lovely prayer.
bless you,
Vicki (in Scotland)
May 4, 2008 at 10:31 am
Teresa
If you are seriously thinking of going to Lakeland, can I come too? I’m not afraid anymore!-TK
May 4, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Marcee
Revival is exciting! I attended the recent revival meetings in Sioux Falls and they were awesome! Children are so hungry to recieve and be used of God! Let us come as little children! To watch a child lay hands on someonen and see that person get healed is truly amazing!
I have been praying for revival for over two years in my workplace, and more recently for revival in Sioux Falls. Now that I have been through the revival meetings, it’s begun here! I have a fresh perspective on how to reach some of my co-workers for Christ, and God has given me a plan of action to reach one child in my neighborhood, and as a result, revival will break out here on this end of town. Wow! I have a neighborhood full of kids, and with the power of the Holy Spirit reaching just one, revival will break out like a wild fire! I’ll keep you posted on what happens! Go, God!!
May 4, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Tina Miller
I don’t think it is any accident that this great revival is happening at the same time Oprah is conducting her class. God is powerfully demonstrating that the only life changing, life giving, healing, saving, redeeming, spiritual encounter we can ever have is with Jesus! This reminds me of Elijah in 1 Kings 18:
22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the LORD’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let them choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”
Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”
The prophets of Baal danced and shouted, but nothing came. Elijah even poured water on the offering and the wood. vs. 38 says:
38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.
39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!”
I am thankful for how God is sending His Holy Spirit fire at this revival conducted by Todd Bentley. I am praying that the people in this nation and this world will humble themselves, fall prostrate and cry “The LORD – he is God! The LORD – he is God!” I think it is great that God is using an individual like Todd Bentley to bring revival to America! We need it! I think we should invite him here to Sioux Falls!
May 5, 2008 at 3:23 am
Mark Whitby
Thanks for your insight and clarity – I suspect that the level of criticism will increase as this move continues – sadly it is often true that an earmark of a real move of God is when many from the ‘church’ criticize it, just as the pharisees could not see the fingerprint of our Father on Jesus because they were too busy looking at the things that offended them –
I think it is John Arnott who said ‘ God will offend the mind to reveal the heart’ Offend us O God – let our hearts be open to you!
May 5, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Sabrina Buffington
I am interested in getting a hold of Todd’s book on the Supernatural World. Do we have it at CATG for sale?
Thank you for the blog on what is happening in Florida. I’m praying for it to take over our country too because I want the Truth to become utterly irrepressible in our country. People are starving to know that God is real and that He knows everything about us as individuals and cares enough to be to us whatever we need Him to be. Many churches are blocking the flow between a God Who desperately desires to show His power and love to us and the people who are desperately seeking Him even when they don’t always know that He is what they are looking for. These churches stand in God’s way with their policies and doctrines and bylaws, and they are just like the religious leaders that Jesus addressed when He said, “Woe to you Pharisees and scribes! For you not only refuse to enter the Kingdom yourself, but you stand in the way to hinder those who are going in.” It is especially sad in light of the fact that the enemies of the cross have already driven the Truth out of the mainstream media and the public schools and as many public places as they can. So when people go to look for God, the only place they know to look is the church, and God help them if they end up in a social club masquerading as a church, where people make the rules as if God were their bus boy instead of Creator of all that is and rightful Lord of everything. I call them Burger King Christians because they think they are supposed to have it their way. I hope I am not too judgemental, but this is an issue that really gets to me. That’s why I want God to show up overwhelmingly and unstoppably all over our country. “Let God arise and let His enemies be scattered!”
May 5, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Sabrina Buffington
Also, since no one addressed “Berean”‘s comment on the tattoos, I just want to say that I’m pretty sure that verse on tattoos in Leviticus is referring to a pagan practice of cutting and tattooing oneself for the dead, and it is the purpose of the tattoo that God is addressing there and not the tattoo itself. Don’t get caught up in externals–that was the Pharisees’ problem. God looks on the heart and the motives behind what we do. And also, I would just like to point out for the record that God has a tattoo. Isaiah 49:16 “Behold, I have indelibly imprinted (tattooed a picture of) you on the palm of each of My hands…”
May 6, 2008 at 8:24 am
Steve Hickey
Thanks for the great comments everyone. Keep them coming! I love how the comments are from all over the world – Australia, Scotland, New York and other US states. This revival is indeed capturing the attention of the world.
I am heading to Lakeland May 21-24.
May 6, 2008 at 8:33 am
Steve Hickey
Sabrina – we don’t have any copies of SUpernatural World left here in our bookstore. Order one off of Bentley’s website – freshfire. I love the “God has a tattoo” verse! It’s one of my wife’s favorite verses.
Mark – I suppose the level of criticism will increase but as you say, it’s only revealing the hearts of men! Thanks for commenting!
Tina – I hadn’t thought about the interesting timing of this revival with the rise of the Church of Oprah – we need to watch this closely!
Marcee – I love your heart for more of God!
Teresa – We are going May 21-24 – let’s go together!
Vicki – greeting to you in Scotland! You are right we ought to fear mediocrity more! Thanks for commenting!
Talin – I pray you will be healed just enough so you can go and get fully healed and come back to NYC contagious. Burn!
Lynn – greetings to you in Scotland! I shared your blog address with my childrens minister – you two seem to share the same heart for kids! God bless you and thanks for link to my post!
May 6, 2008 at 8:43 am
PC
Steve, 35 comments and only 1 upset berean-you’re awesome brother! PC
May 6, 2008 at 8:52 am
Pat
Another great reference to “tattooing” is Isaiah 44:3, “For I will pour water on the thristy land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants, They will spring up like grass in a meadow, like poplar trees by flowing streams, One will say, ‘I belong to the Lord’; another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, ‘The Lord’s… I am claiming this verse for a prodigal son with tattoos. I really believe this will be God’s final word written on his hand for the enemy and everyone else to see!
Our pastor, from Pennsylvania, was there last week and came back a live coal. Without prior knowledge, 4 pastors from our area went from Tuesday through Friday last week (one of them was called up and Todd laid hands on him for our region). We are believing for our region, south central Pennsylvania-Harrisburg, our capital, not just our church!!
Steve, we were hoping to meet you when we got to SD, hopefully, we’ll meet you the 25th before we fly back to PA. Go get lite!!!!
May 6, 2008 at 9:51 am
Can’t get off ’cause the bus won’t slow down « Gate Post
[...] Revival Tags: Fatal Misconception, Lakeland Outpouring So much is going on. We are watching the Florida outpouring and have plans to go dip in the stream there on May 21-24 with numerous other CATGr’s. I have [...]
May 6, 2008 at 10:36 am
Steve Hickey
Observer – I just deleted your vicious comments because I lump you in with all the others out there who Satan is borrowing right now to anonymously shoot arrows from places of concealment at the servants of God. Anonymity is a from of darkness. I tried to email you directly through the “address” you logged in with but as expected I just got this back:
The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
‘wiias@jka34us.org’ on 5/6/2008 12:00 PM
550 unrouteable address
Even your identity is cloaked in deception. At least call yourself a more fitting name like ACCUSER. The Bible calls you an “accuser of the brethren.” I was tempted to leave your comments up for others to read so they’d had a stark comparison in discerning the “spirit” behind what I wrote and discerning the “spirit” behind what you wrote. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. I read none of the above in your comments. I don’t suspect you’ll try to post again here as this appears to be a “script” that you are cutting and pasting radomly and anonymously all over the cyberworld right now. I typically just ignore your type, but for whatever reason, I see the devil using you to hinder a hurting person somewhere from getting touched by God. If you do post a comment again, I’m filtering your comment to moderation. It was interesting to me that your comment was #39 which is the number of lashes that ripped through Jesus’ back. How fitting, for that is precisely what you are doing when you lash out at those called by His name.
Way to go unhappy, unhealthy and unhealed brother! From your computer in your dark lonely basement you have established yourself a “ministry” where you can beat up the Bride. There is nothing Jesus-like, nothing winsome in your message or methods. Those who take cheap shots at the Bride and exploit her inadequacies release the wrath of the Groom. Those who bless her, speak well of her, overlook her blemishes and shortcomings, release the favor of the Groom.
May 6, 2008 at 8:16 pm
iamhealed.net » Blog Archive
[...] GREAT post by Steve Hickey about Todd Bentley, the Florida GLOBAL revival, heresy hunters, and etc. [...]
May 7, 2008 at 8:52 am
thebibleblogger
Excellent, excellent post.
May 8, 2008 at 6:39 am
Chuck Bean
Todd’s ministry has touched my life. He doesn’t seem money hungry to me. In obedience to God, he took 6 months or a year off from traveling and conferences.
I pray God keeps him on the right path, as this grows. For years his desire to “give it away” has blessed me. My only question about that is, Is it given away too quickly, going against the warning to not lay hands on anyone too quickly? or did that only apply to the laying on of hands to put someone in leadership??
Another angle on sickness and trials in a Christians life even unto death, is found in a message by Art Katz entitled Cain and Abel part three, available on this web-page
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=173&min=60&orderby=titleA&show=20
He speaks of ‘righteous Abel’s willingness to ‘go for a walk’ with Cain, if maybe that walk would redeem and save Cain. Willing to ‘lay down his life’ if in some way that could be used to save another’s life and glorify God. So from that message (and i am not doing it justice, please listen to it) I can see another side to “healing” and a very deep and true answer to why some “saints” are not healed.
Sorry this was so long, I am praying about recommending this “outpouring” to a man in our church who has no “hope from the dr.’s”
left, and in researching found your very well thought out and true blog.
thanks for writing it.
chuck bean chuckabean@hotmail.com
May 8, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Matt
Steve,
I almost cried when I read your tender defense of the bride’s honor–you are a true shepherd of the sheep. I’m glad you did not leave up that post–even seeing such evil in print has a negative effect that lingers in the mind like toxic fumes.
Funny thing, I’ve been following the revival fairly avidly since mid-April, and have only read positive reports from internal sources, and watched little bits of in on the web, and been tremendously blessed by the anointing and power of it even just through those media. It was only this week that I encountered anything negative about it, and it almost has been like a slap in the face or cold water poured on a cheerful blaze.
I’ve followed Todd Bentley’s ministry fairly closely for the past year, and one of the things I love about him is how he is operating free of the fear of man and of religion that would shut down the Spirit’s flow. How many of us would be willing to go international live on TV, warts and all, no editing to a world wide satellite audience, where our every word, gesture, or reaction can be turned against us to prove we are not of God?
Is he perfect? No. Nor am I, the last time I checked. But I would take a fiery, tatooed ex-hooligan on fire for Jesus and unafraid of man over a supercautious powerless Pharisee any day. I understand the need for and hunger for holiness, but I’m so weary of the church being so caught up in form and surface stuff that we constantly hang back in fear and second guess ourselves rather than going for it in the kingdom.
So I won’t read any more external criticism of the Spirit’s move–it’s always best to just go and dive in! The naysayers have plenty to keep them busy formulating their next piece of cyber slander, so they probably won’t bother me as I seek to go just a little bit deeper into the river…swimsuits, anyone? ; )
Thanks for the thoughtful posts!
May 14, 2008 at 7:56 am
libraryman
Steve, kudos on the great post. I especially like your post to Berean. I came across their site. I rarely if ever post on sites like theirs, because minds are usually not changed and it can end up being divisive. However, I thought that I would make a few comments to see if they would be cordial and debate the issues. Sadly, I was reminded of “why I don’t post on sites like theirs”. Their minds are like steel traps – nothing gets in & nothing gets out, arrogant and self-righteous like you said. I gotta keep telling myself it’s a spirit that I’m dealing with….
My wife and I live about 1.5hrs from Lakeland. It is indeed something to experience. There are things that happen off camera that are even more amazing. We went on the Sun nite when Todd was at the stadium. A couple we met there showed us 2 eagles nests on the stadium light poles. I think there 2 eagles in one nest and one in the other. During a “very prophetic” time in the service, they said that each eagle would circle above the platform one above the other one.
This past Sat night, as we were watching TV there was a scream from the crowd. There was a cross in the sky. A friend of ours was there and said what people don’t know is that there was a gentle breeze blowing, yet the cross stayed stationary for at least 20 min. It then drifted some and again stayed stationary!
For those of you that are going, from what I’ve been told hotels are full in Lakeland. Orlando is about 50mi away and probably have some. The drive is all expressway. It is a nice ride probably about 40-45min. Ignited Church was asking their people if they would be willing to open their homes for visitors. You could call them.
Gates don’t open till 5:30 at the convention center. It would be good for you to get there at 5. I doubt if they will use the stadium again because logistics were very difficult. No one was allowed on the grass, so getting to the platform for the sick and handicapped was a nightmare.
Things may change again, but I think that Todd will use the convention center Sun – Thur and the field at Lakeland Linder airport Friday and Sat.
Sunday crowds aren’t as large as Fri and Sat.
If there is anyway I can assist anyone let me know.
LM
May 21, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Louis
Sorry brother but you have zero discernment in this case. The websites you are saying have no validity are quoting the bible and facts, whereas I see zero coming from you, just the typical subjective thoughts and quoting from Narnia. Signs and wonders showing up in the last days ought to be and automatic caution for us to beware of lying signs and wonders and ought to drive us to dig into the scriptures and see if these things be so. Claiming that a female angel named Emma is bringing the impartation of god is demonic and unbiblical. Emma -Ho is the Japanese god of the underworld. Is that who you want touching you? And in the Bible angels are called the sons of God, they are not female. I could go on and on and on (like Todd’s demonic tattoos for example, and Paul Cain lying to your gathering) but these things have been very well covered on many reputable websites. Save yourself and your children from this endtime demonic deception. Shame on you for not checking it out yet!!
May 21, 2008 at 6:29 pm
lakeland revival todd bentley florida 2008
[...] &171 Gate …Steve Hickey, Lead Pastor of Church at the Gate in Sioux Falls, South Dakota…http://stevehickey.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/revival-in-florida-todd-bentley-and-seat-of-scoffers/Tracking the CNN Prophecy 21???You may say in your heart, ???How will we know the word which the [...]
May 22, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Steve Hickey
Louis- If you don’t see Scripture coming from me you are blind or a total novice to the Word of God. Really brother, you are among those who put a fear of deception in the Body of Christ and strip away their childlike faith in a God who only gives good gifts to his children.
Louis, you only have faith for a counterfeit emerging on the scene. Why do you have no faith in God’s ability to do the real thing?
Those like you said Jesus had a demon.
May 23, 2008 at 3:36 am
Louis
hmmm… I was hoping you were still out there Steve, it took so long to get a reply. The reason I found your site is I was wondering if anyone would be so gay as to pull the limp-wristed “seat of the scoffers” card which is a non-accusation. Lo and behold there was one which actually stooped to the occasion. It isn’t scoffing when you are bringing out cold hard facts, pure education and Bible teaching which is what these educational sites are doing to warn the Christians about your deception. (SH: edited out the rest of this rant)
May 23, 2008 at 5:04 am
Ray Stone
Very right-on Louis. I especially like the part about limp-wristedness. Why is it so often the preachers that are so gay? Seat of scoffers, that’s hilarious. (SH:edited rest of this rant)
May 23, 2008 at 8:18 am
Louis
You just couldn’t handle the truth. You are really deliberately avoiding the truth to your own detriment. I really feel sorry for you in a way, but more for the people you ‘pastor’. Please don’t solicit any more resposnse from me, I’m shaking your dust off of my sandals, even though I’m wearing socks right now. ‘Rant’ my ass. You’re so full of doo-doo I bet your eyes are brown. Love ya! Bye! Louie.
May 24, 2008 at 5:40 am
Louis
oops, sorry for being so obnoxious. just trying to be funny i think but it got out of hand. im sure you are a great pastor. please forgive me.
May 25, 2008 at 4:50 am
revival in florida
[...] of Scoffers ? Gate PostSteve Hickey, Lead Pastor of Church at the Gate in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.http://stevehickey.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/revival-in-florida-todd-bentley-and-seat-of-scoffers/Florida Healing Revival GOD TVREVIVAL. WATCH ONLINE. DONATE. TUNE IN. TIMES. TESTIMONIES. GOD ON [...]
May 25, 2008 at 7:05 am
Steve Hickey
Louis – sure I forgive you, absolutely I do. I bless you. But am I the one to seek forgiveness from? God is the one I’m saying we need to be careful we don’t speak against. What really stood out in your comment was that you swore. Hello?!
TO THE REST OF YOU READING – Now I’m getting mass “pasting” going on in the comments section. I’m deleting them all. Don’t send me long lists of Scripture verses you think are relevant and links to the site of scoffers. I have my own extensive list of Scriptures that say the self-appointed revival police are way, way out of line. They curse. Even literally. Wow. Surely people can discern that I’m operating in a different flow?
Ephesians 4:29-30 “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
Matthew 12:34-37… You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
2 Corinthians 2:14… The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Regarding Todd Bentley – 1 Corinthians 1:27… “But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise”
Proverbs 12:18… “Reckless words pierce like a sword, the tongue of the wise brings health.
And my personal favorite – Philippians 4:8-9… “Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.”
For the record, I just returned from three days in Lakeland. I went with eyes wide open. I’ll do a follow-up post to this post in a few days. The leaders there went on and on about how they are shepherding this revival and why they aren’t correcting everything everyone thinks they should correct. People really, really need to guard what what they are saying about all this right now. Jesus was preached, people were saved and set free. It wasn’t about money, man, methods – there are things to criticize for sure, but WHY NOT FOCUS ON WHAT IS GOOD, PURE, ADMIRABLE, PRAISEWORTHY AND THINK AND BLOG ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
This is from the Message: “You have minds like a snake pit! How do you suppose what you say is worth anything when you are so foul-minded? It’s your heart, not the dictionary, that gives meaning to your words. A good person produces good deeds and words season after season. An evil person is a blight on the orchard. Let me tell you something: Every one of these careless words is going to come back to haunt you. There will be a time of Reckoning. Words are powerful; take them seriously. Words can be your salvation. Words can also be your damnation.” Matthew 12:34-37
May 26, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Florida Healing Outpouring - Todd Bentley and the Seat of Scoffers part two « Gate Post
[...] yet read my earlier post on Todd Bentley, the Florida Healing Outpouring and the Seat of Scoffers, please read that first. This post is a follow-up to that earlier post and the stream of comments it [...]
May 30, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Ron
This whole entire blog and no one mentioned Jesus died for you on the cross so you can be saved from going to a eternal hell? The masses never came to the real Jesus Christ, for redemption of sins. Broad is the way that leads to destruction, but narrow is the way that lead to everlasting life, and FEW be there that find it.
Many of you right here on this post would swear that other religions are false, but even they claim they know Jesus, and teach about him.
All I hear is God, did this God did that, but yet even Satan claims hes a God.
Don’t you know God in the minds of millions is really a generic term? Many down through the years claimed they were God. Moses asked God who it was he was to tell the egyptians who sent him, God told him “I am that I am”. Why? Because in those days just like today, there were many Gods. God was not going to be confused as the other Gods the egyptians believed in. This way they couldn’t make any claims, but that they knew who God was not just that he called himself God.
Who are some of you really serving anyway..? My bible says without the preaching of the cross of Christ there is no remission of sin! And it means just that, JESUS is the only way to the God most of you are claiming, but yet Jesus is rarely mentioned.
Are you really washed in the blood of the lamb, are your garments spotless are you white as snow, are you really SAVED??? You’d better quit chasing things just because you think your free, and GET on your knees and pray to find out if indeed you know JESUS. I mean really not just speak his name and say a little prayer. Don’t basement bargain for the next feel good move.
Hell is real folks, and eternal, and don’t think for once that your now invincible either because you go to some spiritual meetings, that Satan can’t deceive you. The first mistake one can make is to think hes saved, not saying any of you aren’t, but search yourselves to find out if you are, with fear and trembling. Those are harsh words my friends, but the bible says it Fear and Trembling!
I’m not bashing no one here, if you think I am then take it up with the Almighty, because it’s in his WORD. Let me ask you one question, before I sign off, have you studied the bible for all it’s worth? I wont tell you what to do or what not to do, I have my own problems to work out, but you MUST TEST THE SPIRITS, by praying and SEEKING the LORD JESUS CHRIST, before you fall for some move you think is from God!!!!
June 1, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Erin
Ron-Your comments are worth taking seriously, and believe me I for one take the fact that Jesus Christ died for me very seriously. I was just thinking today about how much Jesus has changed my life over the past few years. If you will allow me say a few things…Jesus dying on the cross wasn’t up for debate on this blog…(and it is mentioned in part two Florida Outpouring post…look at Dan’s comment). I believe that most of the people on this blog know and believe that Jesus died for us and that IS the REASON why we WORSHIP HIM! What’s up for debate on this blog is whether the Florida Outpouring is a true move of God. Let me ask you a question…didn’t Jesus say that we will know by their fruit? Well, so far the fruit has been healings and salvations. Praise Jesus!! I went to Florida and my hunger for God’s word and intimacy with Him is overwhelming since coming back. While it is true that there are many gods and satan does think of himself as a god…I (We) are not crying out for a god by any other name. We are crying out for JESUS CHRIST! Why would God give us a demon if we are crying out for Him?! If I was being deceived, I’m sure Satan would not want the desire to be in God’s word in my heart! Everything that claims to be a move of God isn’t always just that and it’s necessary to be discerning. .but…it’s always good to becareful to not throw out something that MAY just be of God. Becareful not to judge it too quickly. I don’t want the Son of David to pass me by…I pray that you don’t want that either. Be Blessed.
June 2, 2008 at 9:52 am
Ron
Well Erin, Have you considered what it means you’ll know them by their fruits? I can tell you fruits of the spirit is not works. It never has been, if it were then every false teacher, preacher, and false prophet has plenty of good works, but the bible made it clear that there will be such.
Satan has plenty of works, and he uses it to deceive, even the bible says he comes in as a angel of light. But Satan’s fruits are his motives, which are filled with lies, and deception and hate.
Fruits of the spirits is the heart of man, patience, temperance, love, peace, gentleness, long suffering.
We know them by their fruits, meaning we know them by their motives, why do they do what they do, what is their intent, are they just out for themselves for money or prestige and selfishness?
Witchdoctors have works, but would you call them a move of God? They can even heal people, drive out spirit forces, but they know not God.
Atheist have good works, some of them are the most generous people, they even have some good fruits of the spirit, their kind, gentle, peaceful as for as they know what peace is. But would you consider what they do as a move of God?
You know Pharaohs men copied the works and miracles Moses did, so Satan even has that ability, this is why we must test the spirits in which men come in by, their motives and the spirits in which they exorcise.
Jesus never charged money either like some of these so-called movements, could you imagine if Jesus was here now, would you think he would charge to get into his house? No I’ll tell you what he would do, he would TRUST in God to supply. Well some of these movements trust in their money, and if you can’t see that, then maybe you should step back and ask for discernment then. I’ll tell you what their fruit is GREED!!!!
June 2, 2008 at 10:08 am
Erin
Ron-
I pray for peace for you. I can sense a lot of anger and anxiety coming from your post, and that saddens me. Truly I pray that you are blessed and have the peace that only Jesus can give you.
June 2, 2008 at 11:18 am
Ron
Erin, I find it very hard to believe you seen anger and anxiety in a simple post, considering you couldn’t have possibly heard any emotions coming from it.
But you know even at that, Jesus was at times very harsh in his words, and at times very gentle, sometimes TRUTH does hurt, and does have a Godly anger. I posted out of the wisdom God has given me, and most of the time I cut thru the chase, and dig down to the root of issues.
I would imagine Jesus was accused of being a mad man, when he called the priest a den of thieves and robbers, a brood of vipers he called them.
I know for a fact I will have the peace of God if I do stand up for truth otherwise I would not have it. So the more you pray for me to have peace, in which I’m grateful for, the more of the truth I will stand up for.
You pray for my peace, I’ll pray for your discernment.
I’m not prefect yet, and I’ll tell you this, the one thing I’ve always wanted from God was wisdom, I’ve always found that to be one of the best things a person to have.
By the way, it does anger me to see people take advantage of other people, there are some real good con artist in this world, and I think it should make everyone angry, and if we all had the wisdom of God, then there wouldn’t be con artist. And yes there are con artist in churches, and they come in by the name of God. That’s what really should sadden us more than anything outside of the lost souls who know not God.
And even some of the lost can smell a con artist a mile away, and will run from it, which means some of them are running from God, instead of to God.
June 2, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Florida Healing Outpouring - Todd Bentley and the Seat of Scoffers part three « Gate Post
[...] Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring. If you have yet to read the earlier posts you can do so here, and here. Two weeks ago I ventured down to Lakeland for a few days with some folks from our [...]
June 2, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Steve Hickey
This past Sunday I decided to devote my message to what is unfolding in Lakeland. It’s probably easier to grab it off itunes and plop in on your ipod, or you can get it off the podcast link below which is on our church website.
Is this that? Relections on the Florida Outpouring – Matthew 11:1-19
http://www.churchatthegate.com/podcast.php
June 2, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Steve Hickey
Ron and Erin – thanks for your comments.
Ron – Question… Regarding your comment “Jesus never charged money,” obviously that is true. But why plop the comment here – are you thinking Bentley is charging money? He’s not. In fact, he’s passes the “money test” with flying colors. I spoke to this issue directly in my message Sunday which is referred to in the above comment. The MSNBC article last week asked about the money question and noted that Bentley isn’t making money on this, his five digit salary is the same as it was before, etc. The reporter even mentioned how Bentley only passed the plate once and at 11:30 PM after half the crowd was gone. I know from those on the inside that Bentley forgot to take an offering about eight nights so far and his staff has to remind him because the expenses of this are $15,000 a night. A few times when he does speak to money he has people send it to GodTV and not his on ministry.
Why do Christian concerts have entrance fees and cost so much?? That’s a subject for another post. My point, Bentley is clear on the Greed charge.
Here’s my two cents on the what constitutes fruit. I agree not all good “works” are the fruit of the Spirit. However, the fruit of the Spirit is more than kindness, gentleness and self-control, etc. When the SPirit moves there is evangelistic fruit and this outpouring has much evangelistic fruit – those who say it isn’t so need to show up there before they speak – they are dead wrong and therefore spreading a false bad report in the Body of Christ. The evangelistic fruit and the clear and long altar calls and the street evangelism teams going out every day made evangelism more a focus of this revival than healing from my point of view when I was there. There are other kinds of fruit when God visits a place besides the fruit of repentance. There is the fruit of healed families and marriages. There is the fruit of sacrifical giving. There is the fruit of physical healing and changed lives as the captives are freed. Maturity in the deep things of God is a fruit of these meetings. What is happening when people go home is part of the great fruit of Lakeland.
I encourage you to listen to my message this past Sunday as you pray for us to have discernment.
June 2, 2008 at 2:03 pm
PC
Ron, Being bold for Jesus is an awesome thing-when used to edify the body. You have incorrectly judged our pastor and many leaders of the church as not loving Jesus or believing God’s Word. If you had done some research and asked questions before accusing, you would have found a fellowship built on the Word of God. A church founded on the name of Jesus Christ, where His name is lifted high above every name in every meeting and service. Good works are not a means to salvation here – but a personal relationship with the living Savior Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins. We worship the fullness of God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
While I was at Lakeland I was healed in Jesus Name. I personally also received a boldness there to pray for and bless people in restaurants, hotels and even the airport – a boldness driven by compassion and love.
Let’s not kill each other with friendly fire, while the enemy advances unopposed. God bless you in Jesus name.
June 2, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Ron
Steve:
First I wasn’t referring to anyone specific, you can fill in the blanks yourself, just don’t say it’s my words, I’m being vague and have not mentioned names at all, I hope you do realize that.
PC:
I have not misrepresented anyone I was posting a scripture about what Jesus did in his time about the money changers. Did you hear me give names to anyone specific? NO so what are you saying? Did I accuse anyone for anything? NO if you don’t believe me then scroll back and reread my post, because you won’t find it.
Secondly, I really don’t care about the money people make, what I care about is the false teachers and preachers and prophets. What their doctrine is what they teach, so before you come back at me on that one don’t say I mentioned names. If the bible says their will be false teachers and preachers and such then there is period!!! If there was thieves in the churches back in Jesus day then there still is!
I addressed no specifics and your taking it as if I am, and that to me speaks volumes about your discernment, and how that you have assumed specifics when I didn’t give any. Is this how you read the bible? I have accused no one PC!! I’m afraid you jumped the gun here. I’m not mad, but please with all due respect next time read the post carefully.
June 3, 2008 at 9:17 am
PC
Ron, Here’s your words – posted May 30, 2008 at 10:49 pm By Ron
“This whole entire blog and no one mentioned Jesus died for you on the cross so you can be saved from going to a eternal hell? The masses never came to the real Jesus Christ, for redemption of sins. Broad is the way that leads to destruction, but narrow is the way that lead to everlasting life, and FEW be there that find it.”
“Many of you right here on this post would swear that other religions are false, but even they claim they know Jesus, and teach about him.
All I hear is God, did this God did that, but yet even Satan claims hes a God.”
“Who are some of you really serving anyway..? My bible says without the preaching of the cross of Christ there is no remission of sin! And it means just that, JESUS is the only way to the God most of you are claiming, but yet Jesus is rarely mentioned.”
“This whole entire blog and no one mentioned Jesus died for you on the cross so you can be saved from going to a eternal hell?”
“Many of you right here on this post would swear that other religions are false, but even they claim they know Jesus, and teach about him.
All I hear is God, did this God did that, but yet even Satan claims hes a God.”
“Don’t you know God in the minds of millions is really a generic term?”
“Who are some of you really serving anyway..? My bible says without the preaching of the cross of Christ there is no remission of sin! And it means just that, JESUS is the only way to the God most of you are claiming, but yet Jesus is rarely mentioned.”
“Are you really washed in the blood of the lamb, are your garments spotless are you white as snow, are you really SAVED??? You’d better quit chasing things just because you think your free, and GET on your knees and pray to find out if indeed you know JESUS. I mean really not just speak his name and say a little prayer. Don’t basement bargain for the next feel good move.”
“Let me ask you one question, before I sign off, have you studied the bible for all it’s worth? I wont tell you what to do or what not to do, I have my own problems to work out, but you MUST TEST THE SPIRITS, by praying and SEEKING the LORD JESUS CHRIST, before you fall for some move you think is from God!!!!”
June 2, 2008 “Is this how you read the bible? I have accused no one PC!! I’m afraid you jumped the gun here. ”
Ron, You win – you are right, thank you for your wisdom and discernment. We (on this post) bless you in Jesus Name.
June 3, 2008 at 10:25 am
Anthony Barrett
Hi Steve,
Thanks for providing a place to discuss the outpouring on your blog.
I wanted to ask….What do you think of Todd’s suggestion that some of us should taste the tree of life?:
“…..But today the Lord wants to bring some of us into that place where we taste the fruit of the tree of life. I want you to get involved right now and say:
Father, please give us that fruit. Lord let those angels bring us right into the place where you have prepared a table for us in the presence of our enemies. Give us the divine life that comes from that tree so we can taste and see that the Lord is good…..”
Isn’t that why God expelled Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden?
June 3, 2008 at 10:47 am
Ron
PC:
And your point is…..?
June 3, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Steve Hickey
Ron – Come on. Erin, PC’s and my point is that it’s quite clear you are accusing. You can say you are not but whatever. If you feel you are being “vague” and not mentioning names like TOdd Bentley when you call into question the handling of money, the message of the cross, etc – why post the comments on a very specific blog about Bentley when all of the discussion is clearly about him? I appreciate your interest and participation in this discussion but I’m ready to move beyond this now. Blessings to you.
June 3, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Steve Hickey
Anthony – thanks for your question. I don’t really have a basis to explain Bentley’s references to the TRee of LIfe – I see your point. I don’t want here get myself into a position where I am defending his theology or vocabulary/metaphoric language.
Personally I have no issue with him talking about eating from the Tree of Life. I come out of Ted Haggard’s camp and Pastor Ted – before he fell – wrote a great book on living in the tree of life as opposed to living in the legalistic and judgmental tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Rev. 2:7 says those who overcome will be given fruit to eat from the Tree of Life. I believe the tree of life is Jesus and language of “eating” from that tree is not about literal eating so much as it is about embracing him – “eat his flesh?” is similar. If this is also what Bentley is speaking about I can’t be sure as I’ve never heard him talk about this.
June 3, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Anonymous
I think this is legit, if it has good fruit and pushes the name of Jesus its legit, lets not criticize unless we were there too see it ourselves. I love you Jesus.
June 3, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Anonymous
I would like too ask Steve why Mr Bentley is referring too an angel named Emma? Is it biblical that says this? Is this possible biblically?
June 3, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Ron
Steve: Take it as you wish, but my bible and I hope it’s the same one you read, says that all scripture is for edification of the body of Christ. It also says that Gods word will not return unto you void. Yet you don’t see the bible giving names of specifics do you? Did I not make it clear that it doesnt matter to me what kind of money people make?
Would it please you more if I did come right out and give names? For if I did then you would be taking offence to that, either way you look at it, your promoting whomever you wish instead of standing up with what the bible says, obviously!
Like the question I did ask, in my previous post whom are you serving??? I made my point and my friend, maybe you need to question your motives.
By the way my bible says If Jesus be lifted up then he will draw all men unto himself. That’s exactly what I did do, and you turned it around on me, so who is standing up for what?
I’m sorry if I can’t promote man and Jesus at the same time, and I know some will take an offence, but I will not stop, for Jesus said he was the way the truth and the life. Would you have felt better about it if I posted on a website that you do not agree with? Would it have been any different?
God bless you Steve I hope I have made a point, it was all about scripture and nothing else!!
June 3, 2008 at 2:03 pm
LadyofFe
Hi Pastor Steve,
Thank you thank you thank you!!!! I’ve read just about ever negative thing on the web about this outpouring in Lakeland. My first reaction was, maybe I was wrong about it. But, from deep within I’d hear that still small voice, look at the fruit. What does the fruit look like?
I see some fear on some peoples part, they just aren’t sure. Mostly, I see a judgmental, critical, spirit of religion, and some others that are just down right vial. In most of the people who are critical of this outpouring, I see little to no real love.
This is the wisdom God gave me about the angel Emma and other
manifestations. Since satan can come as an angel of light, how do we
discern? This is what God gave me. What was the message given and what is the fruit like? Not what form did the messenger come in.
I feel like you do. God didn’t leave us here defenseless. We have the Holy Spirit. And the word says, Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, IF POSSIBLE, even the elect.
I look at church history. Starting as far back as Luther, the church has been making slow progress back to what the church was like in the book of Acts. Especially noticeable is the change in the last 100 or so years. With the Wales outpouring, Azuza St., Jesus movement, Faith movement, Prophecy movement, worship and praise, ect. The end time church will be more powerful than the early church. God’s glory will shine like never before.
I think Jesus first miracle was prophetic. A picture of the first church and then the last.
John 2:10 “Usually a host serves the best wine first,” he said. “Then, when everyone is full and doesn’t care, he brings out the less expensive wines. But you have kept the best until now!”
Please pray for the UP of Michigan, this is cold hard ground up here.
June 3, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Anonymous
I think we should come too agreement. As believers we should not quarrel amongst ourselves, the bible warns against this. Ron why talk about this revival if you have not been there? It may be an outpouring of the spirit, why disparage it unless you have been there? I heard some people compare this man to John the baptist which is silly, we should not make such comparisons, it only promotes the man and we should be promoting the movement of God thats taking place there, not the open vessel that Mr. Bentley has allowed himself to be. God bless.
June 3, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Anonymous
Will pray for your region ladyoffe.
June 3, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Anonymous
Would you like to explain the angel that Mr. Bentley is talking about Steve? Is this biblical, an angel specifically revealing there name, something angels didn’t do in the bible, they always said i’m an angel of the lord, or servant of the lord, never giving a specific name. What do you think Steve?
June 3, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Steve Hickey
LadyofFe – Thanks for your comments and I’m glad you appreciated what I’ve written. I pray God will move mightily in the UP of Michigan!
Anonymous – Thanks for your question on the angel Emma. Certainly angels visit people and speak to them. They are “ministering spirits sent to serve those who inherit salvation.” The are angelos – messengers. In Acts 8:26 an angel shows up and speaks to Philip about which road to go down to meet up with the Etheopian Eunuch. And, absolutely, angels have names – Gabriel, Michael, etc. Demons are fallen angels and we have numerous named fallen angels in Scripture – Legion, Abaddon, Lucifer, Prince of the Power of Persia, Mammon, Beelzbub, etc. The seminaries I went to didn’t teach angelogy or demonology – they are good evangelical schools but they have no theology of the supernatural. I had to learn this stuff right from the Bible.
Angelic activity is increasing in the earth as is demonic and both will continue to increase until we reach the great conflict of the ages. I praise God for angelic activity, visitations and have several stories of personal interaction with angels myself and many many more visitations and sightings at our church.
That an angel named Emma or “Winds of Change” visited these revival leaders is nothing to fret about at all. Even the fact that Satan comes as an angel of light says volumes about how active angels are in the world and the Body of Christ today. Satan is just trying to blend in with what God is doing and pull a few people off course.
God send more angels! Each weekend I ask for God to send angels to minister and bring the atmosphere of heaven in our worship services. Spiritually sensitive people frequently, almost weekly, comment to me they see angels in worship at our church or around the premises or in prayer meetings. Why are we surprised and skeptical? The Bible says they are ministering spirits send to serve us?
I’ll share one personal story. My wife and I were in Idaho praying with a another couple. The man said, “Pastor Steve do you know that you have angels around you right now?” I said, “I guess, aren’t they all around?” I meant like in a generic way, aren’t angels out and about anyways? He said, “open your eyes.” I did and I looked and saw two huge angels, one on my right and one of my left.”
My wife didn’t see them. But I did and so did he. A week later I was back home and was heading to the church at 6 AM on a Sunday morning. I was tired, not ready to preach, discouraged, beat up, etc. As I drove to church I prayed that God would help me and that he’d send those two angels to me again, the one on the right and the one on the left and that they would pouring refreshment and strength over my life.
In our second worship service that day I was praying and notably in full strength again. At the conclusion of the service, a college girl in our church, now married, named Marissa Wilken (Maloney now) came up to me with a note written on the blank half of her Sunday bulletin. I have the note under the clear plastic mat on the top of my desk. The note basically says, “Pastor Steve, while you were praying in the service today I peeked and saw two massive angels standing over you pouring oil on you, one was on your right and one was on your left. I thought you’d want to know.”
Marissa will tell you today that she had no idea I’d seen those angels the week before or asked God to send them to me again that day. Today I welcome angelic activity, visitations and sighting do nothing except fire up my faith that God is at work in our midst! I’m thrilled to hear angels are visiting Todd Bentley. This is already too long, but we have a few great stories coming back now from our Iraq War vets of angels showing up there. God is good!
June 3, 2008 at 3:51 pm
PC
Anonymous- Luke 1:19 …I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God”
Luke 1:26 ” Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God…”
You’ll also find Gabriel in Daniel, Chapters 8 & 9.
The archangel Michael is noted in Jude vs. 9 & Rev 12:7
June 3, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Anthony
Thanks for answering my question Steve.
I have no doubt there are great signs and wonders being worked in Lakeland there is undoubtedly power being displayed…..but let’s does it not say “…..test the spirits as 1 John 4:1 advises – “…..Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits….”
“…..For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. (Matthew 24:24-25
So healings, signs and wonders are no guarantee of it being from God.
“…..Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind….” – Colossians 2:18
June 3, 2008 at 5:29 pm
LadyofFe
Hi Pastor Steve,
I to have a story of angels. Only they appeared as human. I had a long battle with depression, in all the years of that battle not once did anyone I didn’t know come up to me and say any kind of encouraging words, ever. In fact it seemed more like people avoided me.
I had just about come to the end of my rope. I don’t think my face could have shown how beaten down I was any more then it did. I was walking into one store and a man passed me, and said, “everything is going to be alright.” I remember thinking, well that’s nice, why don’t I feel better. I came out of that store and drove to another store about 30 minutes later. I was walking into the store and again, a man, that looked different from the first passed by me and said the same thing, “everything is going to be alright.” I truly believe those were angels. That was in the 80′s. I’m glad to say I was delivered from that depression, by Jesus Himself, not long after this happened. And it was a demon.
June 4, 2008 at 4:48 am
deborah
Hi, I’m from the Netherlands and I realy like to warn you from fals Prophets like this. Read Matthew 7 verse 13 and further. We have to change and read Go’s Word again. Not a few verses here and there but whole books and chapters and we have to study if we are still on the right path.
June 4, 2008 at 5:28 am
Erin
Hi Deborah! Matthew 7 is relevant to this discussion. Just wanted to say that the false teachers that are being talked about I believe their motivation was money, fame, the King’s approval, etc. They minimized Christ and glorified themselves. That is not happening here. Jesus is all that is talked about. People are being trained every afternoon in the city to go to the streets and bring the good news of the gospels and heal the sick. All that is being preached is the word of the Lord. If we are in Matthew 7, you should read vs. 1-12 as well. Don’t judge this yet… time will tell…like it says in Acts 5:17-41. Vs. 38…”So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!”
Be Blessed!
June 4, 2008 at 5:36 am
LadyofFe
Erin good words of wisdom!!!!
I’ve been listening to Todd Bentley for a couple of years now. I had to study on somethings after hearing Todd cause, I just wasn’t sure. But, after a study and prayer, it was confirmed in my heart by the Holy Spirit and the word, that what he teaches and preaches and does is sound. Is it all perfect? No. For the people who are looking for perfection, He already came. His name is Jesus, no other but, Jesus will be perfect.
June 4, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Florida Healing Outpouring - Todd Bentley and the Angel Emma « Gate Post
[...] on the Florida Healing Outpouring – Todd Bentley and the Seat of Scoffers. Those posts can be found here, here and here. The fact that Todd Bentley claims an angel named Emma visited him is creating a bit [...]
June 4, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Gentle Wisdom » Wisdom about Todd Bentley
[...] I just found Pastor Steve Hickey’s interesting series on the Florida outpouring. His first and second posts refer to the critics I have mentioned as the “seat of scoffers”, and [...]
June 5, 2008 at 1:47 pm
LadyofFe
Zechariah 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork
June 5, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Steve Hickey
LadyofFe – Thanks for the verse! That sure is an interesting and important verse as those in the seat of scoffers are saying angels can only be men. FYI – I referenced your comment to my recent post on Todd Bentley and the Angel Emma. Thanks again.
http://stevehickey.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/florida-healing-outpouring-todd-bentley-and-the-angel-emma/
PS – Does “Fe” stand for Iron as in Iron Mountain Michigan? I remember you are from the UP of Michigan.
June 5, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Ian
Steve,
There is a simple, but uncomfortable, way to establish the reality of Todd’s blessings.
In each session he stands and makes significant claims about incredible healings. He claims people have been raised from the dead as a result of his ministry, he speaks a litany of conditions he feels is being healed at that very moment.
If he is for real, then these healings can be easily verified by reference to the physicians of the affected people. Personal testimony aside (the biggest frauds in healing have had plenty of those, as do any variety of new-age healers etc – proper evidence is harder to come by). It has been done before. And it has been tried and failed before when a healer put forward a fraudulent ministry.
The world-changing power of his ministry, if properly verified, would be glorious. If his ‘healings’ could not be verified, the scale of his fraud would be exposed. Ultimately he is either doing what he says or he is lying, and that is easy (but uncomfortable) to discover.
As Christians we sometimes put too much stock in our ability to discern by feeling, or by the Word alone. Frauds throughout history have deceived many, and co-opted the word of God, hiding behind it or following its superficial signs to give themselves credibility. God has given us very powerful tools for discerning: just check the facts.
If he is for real, somebody, eventually is going to be able to put up some hard evidence for one of his healings. Until then we’d all do well to stay humble. Neither scoffing or lauding. The longer it goes on without that, the wiser we’d all be to tread carefully, lest we throw the souls in our congregations into a fire we’ve been severely burnt on before.
Ian.
June 5, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Florida Healing Outpouring - Todd Bentley, Violence and the Kingdom of God « Gate Post
[...] message Sunday where I spoke from Matthew 11:12. You can check out my earlier posts on the revival here and here. I appreciated Peter Kirk’s post yesterday on this topic of violence and the Kingdom [...]
June 5, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Steve Hickey
Ian, great comments and pretty true. I do believe there are numerous miracles being medically verified everyday. I’m close to a couple Lakeland healings and one is doctor-verified for sure. The other is from a brother in our church who had back surgery and we’ve prayed him through pain for a year – he’s perfectly fine now. No doctor can really verify he’s pain free. Only his testimony and the integrity of the person himself can verify this – and the sharing of testimonies is how the gospel spreads. Was a doctors report necessary to verify healings in Biblical days? Nope. The proof was in the testimony and the changed life.
Even so, my sense is that there are always those who “will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.” (Lk 16:31)
God bless the medical community but God is not subject to what science says is true.
June 6, 2008 at 6:24 am
LadyofFe
Hi Pastor Steve,
God gave me that verse yesterday. It was just a few days after I asked Him about Emma. I’ve found out the hard way, when in doubt, ask God. I’ve been reading the bible for over 30 years and never remember seeing that verse. God is so awesome, He never ceases to amaze me.
Fe=iron and also means faith in Spanish
I’m not from Iron Mountain, I live 3 hours away, about 30 miles from Copper Harbor.
June 6, 2008 at 7:07 am
PC
Ian, I appreciate your comments. I’m a marketplace minister from Mn and was healed at Lakeland – By Jesus – through a word of knowledge given to Bentley by the Holy Spirit. (Numerous people have come on stage with before and after x rays, confirming their healings.) Rev. 12:11 “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their (doctor? -NO!) TESTIMONY.”
I am completely confounded by the religious leaders that have no discernment from the Spirit of God to know whether or not this is God. Jesus has not left us null and void of a way to discern what’s happening in Florida. In John 14:17 Jesus promises to send “the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him….”
I am grieved by the Church being unable to recognize this move of God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Lakeland. Not much has changed in 2000 years, as those operating only in the flesh, continue to miss the hour of their visitation (Luke 19:44) I will ask this question – Are thousands of people that have been healed (throughout the world) in this outpouring – all conspiring, lying, crazy or being healed by the devil? I offer this warning from Jesus to the scoffers found in Mark 3:29 ” but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness,…” If this isn’t God, who is it? Satan came to steal, kill, and destroy – not heal. If you want to know if this is God, ask to be filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, then go and check it out for yourself.
June 6, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Ian
“God bless the medical community but God is not subject to what science says is true.”
Very true. And you’re right that there are medically verified healings a-plenty.
My point is more that Todd regularly makes claims about kinds of healing that have _never_ been medically verified. The regrowth of a severed, amputated or malformed limb, raising from the dead. We’ve all heard stories of these things, but every time such stories have been examined the recipient isn’t found, or their prior state isn’t documented, or their doctor lost the notes, etc. The possibility of a bona fide example in the US where medical records are some of the best in the world, is very significant.
In my (often successful) experience trying to find the truely miraculous, I’ve found those people who claim the most dramatic miracles are often the most difficult to verify, and those most likely to turn out as frauds in the long run. Benny Hinn, for example, makes very bold claims similar to Todd, and even claims to verify all the miracles he broadcasts, yet the majority of people are never contacted after the event, some of the stories in his books are contradicted by what evidence there is (whole wards of terminal patients healed are easily checked, and falsified, by published mortality data), and he has been unwilling to release any evidence of his more unusual healings (or his finances, but that’s another matter). Is Benny for real? I don’t know – he makes it difficult to know – but at best he is less than honest at times.
Genuine ministers like you Steve are no strangers to the power of God to heal. We don’t need a doctor to see that someone who has been wracked with back pain and can’t sit comfortably in chruch suddenly is throwing a football around with his kids. But when it comes to prominent healers but we must not forget that some of the biggest frauds have been able to boast of thousands of testimonies of their healing ministry.
It isn’t about doubting the work of God, it is about glorifying God for his miraculous healing work, but giving no truck to wolves who hunt in the clothing of the Lamb.
I stand by what I said, Todd could change the world tomorrow if he provided evidence of what he claims on stage – evidence that (if he is for real) is already there and simply needs to be shown to further glorify God.
Ian.
June 6, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Steve Hickey
Ian – I’ll pray the evidence comes forth on some of these more remarkable claims to healing – new limbs, new organs, substantiation of the dead raised. Jesus sent the lepers to the priests for verification and that needs to happen here more, I agree. There is nothing wrong with more light and less in the shadows. I am also led to pray that God protects the integrity of this revival. Todd said two nights ago they anticipate some substantial resistance of some sort before this all goes to another level this summer, a trial of some sort is pending according to some key prophetic voices speaking into this thing. I’m not sure what that is about but man can still screw this up at this point and I’m praying against that happening. I found the leaders transparent and humble when I was there. I don’t follow Benny Hinn closely. Ted Haggard was my lead overseer until he fell and there are a number of us who believe God is cleaning house and there are more ministers whose empires are about to be undone. This isn’t a good day to minister in the flesh.
Thanks for the kinds words — and I appreciate the dialog.
June 8, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Kelly
I have been reading and searching God on this outpouring for weeks now and the biggest problem I have is who Todd ministers with and associates himself with. I find it hard in my spirirt to think this outpouring is from God. Please dont think Im trying to judge, BUT, I am questioning the likes of John Crowder from The New Mystics/Sons of Thunder and Lucy Rael. I read Todd will be at a conference with Lucy Rael in November. Hello! she is a proven fraud who makes feathers appear and says that its the Holy Ghost. John Crowder has Youtube video of himself saying “hes smoking baby Jesus” and other things and takes a drag off a piece of wood and blows the anointing to you over the tv screen. I mean maybe Im wrong BUT should we not question what Todd preaches, believes, and who he associates himself with??? I find it very disturbing that we as christians lay are discerment and testing of the spirits at the door when we see the signs, wonders and miracles. Dont get me wrong I believe in all that, but I have a hard time believing they are coming through a man who has a distorted view of Gods word and aligns himself with known frauds.
With all that being said I would love to be proven wrong because it angers me when Gods sheep are lead astray so if you have any insight on this please enlighten me. Thank you so much:)
June 9, 2008 at 6:35 am
PC
Kelly, You raise a good point. I found out about John Crowder shortly before going to Lakeland and was repelled by his toking on baby Jesus like a crack pipe. I befriended a young black man in one of the Lakeland meetings and was deeply grieved when he pulled out Crowder’s book.
The point I want to make is this, whenever you gather 8-10,000 people hungry for Jesus – a few misguided souls will show up. I’ve studied cults for about 10 years now and have developed a pretty good Bologna detector when a speaker goes into anything contrary to the gospel. I didn’t hear anything from Bentley that endorsed Crowder and his views, nor did I hear anything contradicting the word of God. I did detect the mighty presence of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the atmosphere of the meetings and the community itself. Dutch Sheets has a wonderful teaching on “How Strongholds Develop” which deals with spiritual atmospheres and climates. The climate in the Lakeland area has changed in God’s favor and people are being saved, healed and delivered – “SOZO”.
Is the revival perfect? -No way! Is Heaven open over Lakeland? Yes!
June 9, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Kelly
Thank you for your post. My parents went to the revival as well and said the presence was so strong you could smell the anointing and everything Todd was preaching was right in line with the bible. With all my heart I dont want to judge Todd, in fact I love the fact that God would use someone so out of the norm like him:)
My husband and I have been in the ministry, I have seen and heard it all and I know the fruit cakes come out and can ruin the true beauty of something God wants to do. When I see something like this I pray and search God and I search to see what Todd believes what his background is etc, because I think as christians we cant just believe any “Joe shmo” that comes up as the new flavour of the month. I went onto Fresh Fire ministries and watched some of his teachings on Youtube and I have to be honest, I found them to be very new age mystic and a little bizarre. Now having said that I still was like “Ok cool this still could be God” but then as I started researching more and I saw that he was going to be at a conference with John Crowder in November(you can see the post on he sons of thunder website) I started to get a little skeptical. So my question is if a preacher, pastor, evangalist, whatever, has some non bibical beliefs, has written, and taught doctrine contray to the bible, and preachs at conferences with known frauds and mystics can this revival really be God ordained, even if what he preaches now seems to line up with the bible? If it is possiable then thats awesome God is moving on his people, BUT I loose a lot of respect for Todd for hanging in the circles and preaching alongside the John Crowders and the Lucy Raels. Were is ones integrity in that, because basically by doing conferences with them he is saying he endorses what they teach and I find that really sad.
Thank you again for posting a comment. I truly dont want to bash anyone I really just want to understand:)
June 9, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Steve Hickey
Kelly – I’m preparing a follow-up post on Mysticism and Todd Bentley – stay tuned as I have more to say about that subject (some of which I’ll parrot below). I find it helpful to think of a continuum – there are Christians on the one end who have no tolerance for any mystic experiences – I’m thinking they are unaware of the fact that Paul, John, Elijah, Jacob, Moses and about 50 other Bible characters were mystics. And I’m thinking they are unaware of the mystics in church history. Mystics are typically killed in their own age and made a saint (literally or at least revered) a hundred years later. Some were goofy. Others lived under an open heaven and those around them on earth couldn’t relate at all and threw rocks (literally). Same story today. A mystic is simply a person who has a heavenly (or supernatural) experience or encounter – that includes a lot of us. There are new age mystics, eastern religion mystics, Christian mystics, and occultic mystics. And there is a continuum for each of these categories.
On the wacked out end of the Christian mystic spectrum are others as you’ve named though I’m reserving judgment on some of them as I haven’t reviewed their ministry. Todd, and I have reviewed his mysticism, is not on the wacked out end (in my view). And all of this is under the banner “Christian Mysticism.” Christian people are labeling his mysticism “new age” because they don’t have any other handles to put on it (again, I believe, due to being generally unaware of Biblical mysticism and mysticism in Church History). And so they label it “new age” and it’s just not. Bentley is a rock solid Christian from everything I’ve seen.
None of those sharing the stage with him, in my view, even remotely fit the bill of “Non-Christian Mysticism” to the dismay of many on the internet. It is inaccurate and not fair to lump these guys in with the non-Christian eastern religion and New Age mystics.
Bentley can answer for himself but I’m seeing a great wave of mystic experience in the prayer movement and the lines in the sand have yet to be drawn – for me this explains how Bentley can share the stage with John Crowder. Though I did hear Ignite Church’s pastor Stephen Strader make a comment while I was in Lakeland to the effect that they aren’t excited about some of the folks their meetings are attracting as it’s tainting the revival – I believe that was a comment made in the context of referring to the radical new mystics.
Rick Warren is sharing the stage with Obama, Bill Hybels with Bono and so on. Those associations are far more frightening to me than Bentley sharing the stage with radical Christian mystics.
June 9, 2008 at 5:28 pm
PC
Kelly, I smelled the fragrance of Christ there also, what an awesome confirmation from your folks. I hear what your saying and it’s a valid concern. Stay tuned for Steve’s teaching on christian mystics.
Steve, Once again your wisdom has amazed me. I’m glad this blog on Bentley has been so friendly. (Ha HA) One more comment will be 100! I look forward to your teaching on biblical mystics.
June 9, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Kelly
PC and Steve thank you so much for taking the time to comment. I look forward to reading your teachings Steve because I do hope to find light and truth in all of this . My biggest problem with some of the new prophets and old ones on the scene today is they take one scripture in the bible and make a doctrine on it. So if I may ask(because you are being so kind to respond back to me) I saw a teaching Bob Jones, Todd Bentley and Patricia King did on the third heaven. I searched the bible on this and could find only one scripture 2 Corinthians 12:1-5 were Paul lightly touches on the third heaven, yet they have made whole teachings on how to get there etc. Could you explain to me if there is any other refrences to a third heaven in the bible and what exactly are we talking about here and how it is possiable that going up to the third heaven 3 times a day(as Bob Jones and Patricia King say they do) can be a better substitute then just reading and obeying Gods written word? And again thank you for taking the time to respond to the posts on here:)
June 9, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Steve Hickey
Kelly – Paul’s reference to his third heaven experience rubber stamps (as being true and accurate) a whole other body of Jewish writing and tradition regarding a layered heavenly realm. A third heaven implies a first and a second. The ancient rabbi’s constructed a multi-layered world, sort of like a large onion composed of various layers with the physical world in which human beings lived at the center.
I’ll plop in a couple quotes here from other sources:
“These layers were called “firmament” or shamayim (heavens or sky) in the Old Testament or “heavens” in the New Testament era. There are many other non-Biblical books and writings that also describe these layers. This model was still in use in the Middle Ages (1400s AD) when Dante wrote of the various levels of heaven and hell. Most often this model contained seven heavens but in a few writings there were only three layers. Even though the number of layers was different these models of the universe shared some common traits. The lowest heaven, the core of the “onion,” is the visible physical world that all people can see.”
“The Bible refers to three “heavens.” We learn in Genesis chapter 1 verses 6 and 7 that God created the firmament. He called this firmament “heaven” in verse 8. The Sun and Moon were placed in part of it (verses 16 to 18), and birds fly in another part (verse 20). We would typically refer to these “two heavens” as outer space and our atmosphere. The third heaven (referred to in 2 Corinthians chapter 12 verses 2-4 among other places), would be the spiritual realm where God and the angels reside.”
Other references to the third heaven are not as clear but include: Deuteronomy 10:14 and 1 Kings 8:27 . Those who talk about the third heaven have much more than one Scripture to base this on. But even if there was only one remote reference, it’s still there, it’s still God-breathed and useful for teaching.
In the 2 Corinthians 12 passage Paul speaks of these “surpassing great revelations” which, literally rendered reads “abundance of revelations.” It’s probably Paul had numerous and frequent experiences in the heavenly realms. Importantly, there is no verse that says this doesn’t happen today. In fact we are encouraged to set our minds on heavenly things (Col. 3:2) – it actually says set your affections on heavenly things. We need to love God and everything surrounding God in the heavenly places.
Scripture says we can approach the throne of grace with confidence (Heb. 4). Is the throne a literal place? I believe it is, though not in the natural realm. But, most only spiritualize this verse? Revelation 4 speaks of the throne and John describes it vividly (because Jesus invited him to “come up here” and see). We too need to press in with our praying to these real places in the heavenly realms. We are seated with Christ in these heavenly places. Timidity and hesitancy regarding heavenly places is not what God wants. The death of Jesus ripped the veil.
What I see going on is the “membrane” between the natural and supernatural worlds is very thin right now. Perhaps this is due to the prayer movement and the fervent seeking of God we see in our day. Many people are frequent in going back and forth between these realms. I’ve had a few experiences myself – they changed my life and I’d welcome them 10 times a day. Some days I just put my Bible on the table, close my eyes and seek his face. I’m thankful Todd Bentley is having heavenly experiences. These should be normal part of the Christian life. Why do we all sing – “open the eyes of my heart Lord I want to see you – high and lifted up, shining in the light of your glory” – and then write off Bentley and others as goofy because they speak of actually seeing with the eyes of the heart the Lord high and lifted up, shining in the Light of his glory?
Your comment about this perhaps being a substitute for reading and obeying God’s Word confuses me a bit. I don’t believe any of the people you mention would say heavenly experiences substitute or render unnessesary time in God’s Word. But, let’s be careful here. We don’t worship God’s Word – it merely reveals him. He is what we seek. We go to the Word for a greater revelation of Him. I love God’s Word because it’s from him, but he is the prize and time with him is to be sought. Trained as an evangelical, my testimony is that my Trinity used to be Father, Son and Holy Scriptures. I’m so thankful God released his Spirit into my life and awakened my heart to the reality of the spiritual realm. The stunning thing was to discover all this is in the Scriptures after all.
This will mess with some but Bentley says things like – “I receive more from one hour of soaking than I do reading fifty Bible chapters, because God instructs me in stillness.” Some read that and hear Bentley saying “we don’t need the Bible we just need to be with God.” Or worse, they mis-interpret him to say “what I’m getting from God is more important or authoritative than the Bible.” But he’s saying neither of these things. He’s not saying there is no need to read the Bible or that it’s okay if the Lord shows us something that contradicts the Bible. He’s merely underscoring the richness of time in the presence of God.
Jesus in John 5:39-40 referred to “those who diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.”
PS- So others could benefit from our dialog I decided to turn this into a full blog post. : )
June 9, 2008 at 9:21 pm
D-Mail #2 - What are these “third heaven” experiences Todd Bentley is talking about?? « Gate Post
[...] in our understanding of God and Scripture. This question came via a recent comment on one of my Todd Bentley and the Florida Healing Outpouring blog posts. QUESTION: Pastor Steve, I saw a teaching Bob Jones, Todd Bentley and Patricia King did [...]
June 10, 2008 at 8:23 am
Kelly
Steve- Again I appreciate you taking the time to write back. I have read all your blogs and I will say we will have to agree to disagree:) I disagree whole heartly in everything you say and i say this as a born again spirit filled believer with 20 years under my belt of walking and serving God going to bible college, reading studying the word, praying, seeking Gods face, and taking part in Toronto, Brownsville, etc.
Comparing Rick Warren(Im not a fan of Rick Warren to begin with anyways) getting on stage with Obama etc is like apples to oranges when comparing Todd Bentley sharing the stage and preaching and teaching along side John Crowder.
I could debate the spiritual realm and theology all day long( and yes I agree there is a spiritual realm but I dont agree that we need to seek after it and make teachings about how to live in it daily) but there just isnt enough time. I whole heartidly agree with you that we all need to spend time in Gods presence reading the word and hearing Gods voice, but again I wouldnt make a doctrine out of teaching people how to get to the third heaven I dont find scripture anywere that Jesus or his discipiles taught us to do so. In fact in 2 Cor as you qouted saying Paul “surpassing Great revelations”doesnt say that in my bible it says Paul says”I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord”. I believe God gives us visions and revelations, but I definelty dont think he wants us to to chase after them. That scripture goes on to say ‘I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Wheather it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God Knows. was caught up to paradise. he heard inexpressiable things, things that man is not permitted to tell”. I hardly think this is the case to teach third heavens, not even Paul taught it and in fact it says “were not permitted to tell” so how do we have all these visions and dreams and make prophecies out of them, when it says right there he “wasnt permitted to tell”.
Titus 4:16 says “he must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Tim 4;16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Perserve in them, bcause if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with wisdom, and as you sing psalms,hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.
And there are many many more. Its not about being religious, its about reading the word and having the scrpitures come to life and know who God is and what he wants for your life. All you need to know to survive and live and abudant life is in the scriptures. Hes the same yesterday, today, and always he never changes, so what makes us think that in the 21st century he would want us to do a “new thing” to get closer to him.
And in regards to your last scripture John 5:39-40. Jesus was speaking to the Jews who didnt believe he was the messiah period. I would hardly take that as a verse to prove your point.
My point is this God already “has a deep relationship” with his people through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. If you want that deeper relationship read and obey his word and everything else he promised or spoke of in the bible will come. And if you never have a dream or vision remember this “Because you have seen me, you have believed;blessed are those who have not seen yet have believed”.John 20:29
Steve thank you again. I pray the Lord bless you and your church. I have found this great debate very enlightening:)
June 10, 2008 at 9:29 am
Kelly
“open the eyes of my heart Lord I want to see you – high and lifted up, shining in the light of your glory” – and then write off Bentley and others as goofy because they speak of actually seeing with the eyes of the heart the Lord high and lifted up, shining in the Light of his glory?
I do agree we as christians do this. But what they are teaching and doing goes well beyond this song:)
June 10, 2008 at 11:00 am
Steve Hickey
Kelly – Blessings to you! I guess everyone who sings “open the eyes of my heart I want to see you shining in your glory” has a boundary line with which they are comfortable with God answering that prayer. Bentley obviously crosses the line many set. Crowder crosses my line not so much for his mystic visions but because he uses an idol of Jesus to mimick drug use. Bottom line for me, I want God to show up and my heart in all these posts is to model how to not pass judgment on disputable matters.
June 10, 2008 at 11:18 am
David
“Though I did hear Ignite Church’s pastor Stephen Strader make a comment while I was in Lakeland to the effect that they aren’t excited about some of the folks their meetings are attracting as it’s tainting the revival – I believe that was a comment made in the context of referring to the radical new mystics.”
In regards to this statement. Isnt it obvious Birds of a feather flock together, and doesn that clue you in on the fact that Todd Bentley runs in those circles so why wouldnt they come???
June 10, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Kelly
open the eyes of my heart I want to see you shining in your glory” has a boundary line with which they are comfortable with God answering that prayer
Absoulty not!! What I am saying is Todd Bentley has some pretty, contrary to the bible beliefs,(or at least what i read the bible to believe and say) in his visions which makes me question them and wonder how he can make teachings out of them. It is very easy for us as christians to be dependent on the experience rather then scripture, not using the bible to prove what we experienced. The way i see it is like this. There is no formula on how to get to third heaven or have visions and dreams. Jesus never taught us how to get to the third heaven and so I dont think we have the ability or know how in how to teach others to get there. Bottom line there is no formula and to think we can write books on how to get people there is ridiclous. If there was a formula on how to get there it would be in the bible. I believe God wants to give us visions dreams and revelations I just don’t think we can duplicate the same experience time and time again. Thats all Im saying nothing more then that:)
I like you Steve! and I appreciate your heart in this matter:)
June 10, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Florida Healing Outpouring - Is Todd Bentley a New Age Mystic? « Gate Post
[...] But, due to popular demand (and subsequent questions) more have come. Initially I had a burden to throw some caution out there to those tempted to occupy the seat of scoffers and so I wrote a couple posts on being careful what [...]
June 11, 2008 at 5:43 am
Erin
God is so good! I love the fact that when we draw closer and closer to our heavenly father he starts appearing to us in many different ways, whether it’s in the physical or spiritual. It’s like a neverending cycle…true intimacy (so close that you don’t even want to open your eyes because you are there with him) = walking even more in the spirit. That is what we are supposed to be doing…daily. The more we walk in the spirit the more He will reveal Himself to us! Sometimes it is a spiritual or mystic encounter. I like what you said Steve…”it’s not what we do, it’s what He’s doing” I have read Bentley’s books and I don’t believe he’s giving a ‘formula’ to get to the third heaven, etc. He talks about his experiences and how to prepare our heart and mind in order to have a revelation of our Lord Jesus! It’s in the rest of Him that He will start to overcome us…(in a good way). When we feed on Him alone and rest under His wing…the more we diminish and the more He rises up inside of us. That is what this is about…more of Him and less of me. Our Father gives good gifts to his children.
June 11, 2008 at 5:51 am
Steve Hickey
We can’t make ourselves go to sleep. But we can position ourselves to fall asleep. We can’t force a heavenly encounter, but we can put ourselves in a position to receive one. If Bentley has a “formula” that’s it. But that formula is just right out of the Bible – be still and know that I am God.
June 11, 2008 at 8:26 am
Erin
Amen!
June 11, 2008 at 11:45 am
PC
Steve, I really relate to your testimony about worshipping the “Father, Son and holy scriptures. I indeed lived there for quite sometime.
In December 1999 I was supposed to go to Texas to portray Jesus in a Christmas cantata. My plane was to fly out on Friday and the Saturday afternoon before, I came home the sickest I’ve ever been in my life and couldn’t get out of bed for several days. Customers were moving into new offices and needed phone systems installed before I left for Texas.
I kept crying out to Jesus for Him to heal me so I could serve Him. Finally, on Wednesday, I knew it was time to move-even though I could hardly stand up without the room spinning. I drug myself into the work truck and began the 30 minute drive to Luverne. I plugged in a tape of the cantata and 15 minutes into the drive I felt what seemed like warm oil pour from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet – the sickness totally left!
As this happened I heard a voice say “I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, I”M GOD! (I wept.)
Two points:
1. God is not limited by our understanding of how we think He works.
2. Sometimes we need to move (even if we don’t feel like it!) so He can accomplish His purpose for our lives.
We Christians can get a little to comfy in our thinking and miss out on the great plans He has for us because of our rigid religious mindsets. We need to embrace more of the Breath, more of the Glory and more of Holy Spirit of God for us to be useful to Him.
June 12, 2008 at 9:55 am
A parody; the doctrine police take a break from straining gnats at the Lakeland Healing Outpouring to take aim at Psalm 23 « Gate Post
[...] Scoffers, Todd Bentley I offer this parody to compliment what I’ve already written on the Florida Healing Outpouring, Todd Bentley and all the anonymous heresy hunters online who stay in the shadows slinging arrows (Ps 64) at others in the Bride of Christ. (Shadows [...]
June 23, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Todd Bentley, C. Peter Wagner and apostolic alignment at the Florida Healing Outpouring « Gate Post
[...] really popped in my spirit, especially with regard to the anonymous, unaccountable and unfruitful scoffers I’ve been warring against here in my posts on this revival. (You know about the online revival police don’t you, those in the shadows [...]
July 10, 2008 at 1:38 pm
ABC Nightline features Todd Bentley and Florida Healing Outpouring « Gate Post
[...] you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” Matthew 7:2 Revival in Florida – Todd Bentley and the Seat of Scoffers part one Florida Healing Outpouring – Todd Bentley and the Seat of Scoffers part two Florida Healing [...]
July 23, 2008 at 10:26 am
Moniquie
here y ou go
July 31, 2008 at 10:24 am
PC
Dan, Where’s the Love? (1 Cor ch13; Rev 2:4-5)
July 31, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Steve Hickey
Paul – I deleted Dan’s rant. I was away from my computer so it snuck by. That’s the kind of thing I’m getting a lot of. I figure that stuff is all over the web I don’t need it here also.
I’m shutting down dialog on this post. Enough said!
November 16, 2009 at 3:31 pm
IHOPU Student Awakening – 2: Stay right on Radical until you meet God « Gate Post
[...] Despite the fact that eighteen months have gone by, two weeks ago I absorbed yet another blow for refusing to join those who were critical of the Lakeland Outpouring. It’s not that I didn’t see anything about it I didn’t [...]